Saturday, August 23, 2008

Mark Driscoll Missional Hard Man????

Wiggy has a clip from Mark Driscoll on his blog Mark is talking about how churches are full of chick-ified guys. He talks about the make up of church and says “60% are chicks and the 40% that are dudes are well sort of chicks”

He has problems with Fuchsia and lemon!. Pete Greig wrote an article on the 24-7 prayer website and I think it applies to Mark, he’s right but only partly right.

I think Mark would probably have Jesus driving a truck, drinking beer and going hunting at the weekends. Maybe Jesus would have done but how does that stand with some of the more chick-ified things that Jesus did? What about having your feet bathed in perfume by a prostitute? What about all that weeping on the mount of olives? That looking out over Jerusalem and saying the very feminine line of “Oh how I would have gathered you like a mother hen gathers her chicks”? Chicksville or what? Mark possibly just wants men to be like him, he’s created Marks world where real men are copies of Mark, probably finds it hard to relate to gentler guys.

I’m going to send him a pink jumper anyone know his size and his address? I'm serious, I think it would suit his dark complexion I think he looks like a winter colours guy.

Elijah gets used as a real man example, of course neglecting the fact he ran and hid in a cave feeling sorry for himself.

Also he says David killed dudes, wow impressive! lets all go out and collect 200 philistine foreskins then the church will flourish!!!! 

God wasn’t impressed by David’s outward appearance or strength it was his heart God loved. David wrote psalms of tremendous tenderness and sat around playing a harp, very chick like…..

He says the real men are all outside the church making money, drinking beer and hunting, what! like geeky Bill Gates?

That’s why I can’t subscribe to a totally macho version of the Christian male image, strong and sensitive works, but even that is my own lense. Mark got some pastors up on stage and asked them to punch him, none did so he punched himself. In all honesty a guy with a church of 6000 people is probably pretty good at picking and reading the crowd for the right kind of people, he would have known they wouldn’t do it even before they got up. Asking someone to hit you to prove some point about the male population of the church is stupid. I guess the non violent Martin Luther King was weak then? Personally I would have picked up a chair and caned him with it.

That’s also why I struggle with the John Elderidge book Wild at Heart, it’s Johns take on how men should be, it works for him, but don’t foist it on the rest of us. Go climb a mountain John.

In all honesty I would probably like Mark, I have enjoyed hunting, I like beer and would love a truck. Thats doesn't mean he is right.

Anyway go to wiggys site and watch the clip.


Mie said...

Makes me think of Jason Mraz's song "Geek in the pink", it's a fab song, love it! Any girl likes a guy that wears pink..Well, this one anyway.

But yes, so very true. I like your point.


Peter Martin said...

Hi Brian,
You don't know me from adam lad but we have a lot of friends in common starting with Wigs. Anyway I just wanted to say that this puts words to my thoughts and I appreciate that. I too struggled with John Elderidge's book describing it as hairy chest up a mountain stuff - it doesn't work for me... Anyway must drop in here more often! You never know one day we'll maybe meet.
Blessings bro,

dave wiggins said...

Yeah, good work ... i would have punched him though. I'd say his size is XXL as he is a big tough lad.

Dennis Muse said...

Your position on manhood and the real men examples in the bible is being greatly influence by the world, coming from the feminist anti male and gay movements not from God or the bible.

David was a warrior king, keep in mind that the harp of his day was equal to playing the electric guitar today, not every one who play one and writes songs is like John Denver, ever heard of heavy metal rock bands, biker rock, just because someone plays a guitar, harp in David’s days and writes songs does not mean they are feminine men or gay. Remember God would not let him build the temple because he had shed so much blood.

Even hells angel’s type biker guys can be passionate lovers with their women and good fathers to their children. And a guy who lets his woman put Aramis on him is not feminine, my woman can do that anytime she wants. Every see the movie 300, good movie for showing the type of person King David would have been, a fierce and might warrior for God, but yet a tender and passionate lover of women, and a father who loved his kids.

And you really need to take a look at who Jesus really is, He is not feminine and most certainly not a metro sexual. Just read Rev 19:11- 15

“Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! The one sitting on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war. His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems, and he has a name written that no one knows but himself. He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God. And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses. From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty.”

Meet Jesus, the warrior God, the complete and real Jesus, you see warrior men never stop being real men, warriors, even when they are having moments of loving passion with their wives, being loving fathers to their children, showing compassion to the needy and helpless, it is a perfect balance but never becoming gay, feminine, or woman like.

I would dare anyone to walk into a biker bar, go up to the biker band and tell them because they play the guitar and write songs, where cologne and took their kids to the zoo, they should be wearing a pink leather jacket. They would find out real quick just how much of a man those guys are. Of course it would be the last thing they learned, but they would know a real man can be a passionate loving person and at the same time be a fierce warrior, without being feminine in any way.

Take a look at a page on my website and read it, and take a look at the 2nd video near the bottom of it.

Brian said...

Your position on manhood and the real men examples in the bible is being greatly influence by the world, coming from the feminist anti male and gay movements not from God or the bible. Dennis I would say your position on manhood is greatly influenced by the world, Biker bars and Aramis! who wears aramis anymore and the woman wasn't his lady and it wasn't mans colognes!

I don't see how you can base part of your understanding of christian males on a mythical film about spartan warriors who agreed to the principal of wife sharing and abandoning weak babies in the hills!

I never suggested David was feminine or gay just that he wasn't all Indiana Jones! I know he was a warrior and God loves warriors but God wanted his heart not his strength.

Jesus was not a metro sexual but he was gentle, full of grace and truth, a lover of people, kind and compassionate. I am not for one minute suggesting he was weak but he was gentle and kind.

By the way whats this fixation with biker bars, they are the sort of thing that exist in movies. Just like some of your comments.

I tend to find that guys who really want to come across as very butch and macho within church circles could be struggling with their sexuality. It's almost as if to get far away from their gay urges they need to create caveman world!

Warrior men! my problem is they are normally woosies and couldn't survive with the whole warrior man stuff in any other environment except the church.

What has going to the zoo got to do with it? I'd rather go on safari.

Brian said...

Dennis I have discovered you go to the gym everyday, are a designer and love to cook you even have a wine list on your blog, how metro is that????

dave wiggins said...

haha!! ... i reckon Dennis is in the closet ... only joking Dennis.

J-Mac said...

Great post brian. Amusing and makes a lot of sense. I think Mark Driscoll has some good stuff to stay, I just struggle with his delivery which comes across as self-righteous and arrogant

Peter Martin said...

"Dennis I have discovered you go to the gym everyday, are a designer and love to cook you even have a wine list on your blog, how metro is that????"

Nicely researched lad... ;-)

By the way drop the word verification option on comments - its a pain in the bazuccas...

Brian said...

Peter, sorry can't do that I tried it before and ended up with about 50 comments for porno sites, at first I thought I had written a spectacular post and my blog was growing in popularity but the truth hurt and I will leave the verification thing on there.........

Brian Marshall said...

Hey Brian, peace and grace from across the pond. You might try reading The Way of the Wild Heart by Elderidge. It is a much better and more balanced book about being male and created in the image of God. And remember that Elderidge wrote The Sacred Romance, Journey of Desire, and Captivating as well. Not all of his stuff is barbarian. Anyway I personally seem to find that I cry the most when I'm in the wild spending time with God. It's a great place to seek solitude and healing. I also believe that Jesus shows us a wide range of masculine and feminine traits without being totally tarzan or gay. Hope all is well on your island. Roar.

John W said...

I'd have broken his nose.